Gordon Brown was heckled by a former Labour voter, Gillian Duffy who objected, in strong terms, to immigration, particularly from Eastern Europe and about pretty much everything else (we only have the tail-end on film here). They had a conversation which didn't go particularly well, then he got back into the car.
He still wore his microphone, and after berating his aides for setting the conversation up, described the woman as a bigot.
'that was a disaster. Should never have put me with that woman .. . Whose idea was that?' It's just ridiculous ... she was just a bigoted woman
Now he's apologising all round and fudging what he said.
Of course I apologise if I have said anything that has been offensive, and I would never put myself in a position where I would want to say anything like that about a woman I met. It was a question about immigration that really I think was annoying.
I'm blaming myself. I blame myself for what is done. You've got to remember that this was me being helpful to the broadcasters with my microphone on, rushing into the car because I had to get to another appointment.
They have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen. I apologise profusely to the woman concerned. I think it was just the view that she expressed that I was worried about that I could not respond to.
Labour spin-doctor:
Gordon has apologised to Mrs Duffy personally by phone. He does not think that she is bigoted. He was letting off steam in the car after a difficult conversation.No, Gordon. She is a bigot. I know it doesn't look right for the PM to criticise a pensioner, but she made a bigoted comment. You should have told her that. Now you've definitely lost the election.
Ho hum. Decades of Tory rule stretch out before us. The Tory press is going to push this for weeks, as will the BBC.
19 comments:
Spot on. This is the problem - it's a very small, petty thing, but Sky News (owned by cuddly Rupe) has jumped all over it, as have the others which have now made it into a full scale meltdown for Brown.
We have our own Joe the Plumber. Hope she enjoys her 15 minutes.
I'm with you in the camp of he should have told her to a face that she was a bigot. The remarks in the car make him look a bit snide but its a difficult one. I thought this was what people wanted with this new form of politics, everyone to be transparent (not just financially) and honest. If he'd have told her to her face he'd be branded a bully, now he hasn't he's a coward and a horrible sod for airing a correct opinion about someone. Whichever way he'd have played it he'd have been on the losing end.
I just think it's a shame that we don't have a microphone on him after he meets people like Boris Johnson, Pixie Lott and Berlusconi.
aaah, good, some like minded individuals. His only mistake was not saying it to her face if he believed it to be true. By back tracking he has only served to make himself look weak. Unfortunately, i do think it's strengthened the Tory position.
I agree that Gordon (we're on first name terms) was right to view this woman as bigoted and also agree that he could have been polite to her without compromising his principles on immigration. What I disagree with is it looking wrong, him criticising a pensioner. My charming (ex!) mother-in-law, also a pensioner, votes BNP, knows more racist jokes than Bernard Manning and has to be kept away from my children so as not to infect them with her views. If Gordon was nice to her, I would have to shoot him.
The key part of this news topic is the location- Rochdale. Upon every waking moment, we Yorkshire folk thank the Lord that it is 30 miles west of Halifax and in turn, pat of Lancashire. It's full of bigots and racist indignation is part of their everyday lives, high unemployment and drug abuse too. Brown was correct in his observation, to say it to her face would've been political suicide but most voters are under no illusion, Cameron and Clegg will behave in this manner behind the scenes and neither have a leg to stand on at the next debate.
See what happens when Gordon meets real people? Interesting that there are already conspiracy theories emerging, as if this was all a plot to trick Gordon into an outburst. Unfortunately, the woman is a lifelong Labour voter from a white working class area, the so-called "core vote" they've been trying to woo. I agree politicians need to challenge negative opinions on immigration, but resorting to name-calling is not the way to do it. Especially when it's a 66 year old widow who's worked with disabled kids for most of her life.
Mandelson was right: keep Gordon away from real people. This might well have scared away some of the core vote. They'll either not vote, or switch to the libs. The real bigots are voting BNP.
Yes, Gordon's much safer with a pile of statistics. I don't see why being old and having disabled kids should make you exempt. It's just careless politics.
I agree with Adam. Just 'cos she's old doesn't mean she can say what she likes at all but here's the crux of the problem: Do you write people off with unfounded fears looking for someone to blame for their lives being so shit as bigots (behind their backs) and leave them for the likes of the BNP to manipulate, or do you engage with them and try to educate them?
In Brown's he's made the most half-hearted attempt to talk to her and then fucked off and disregarded her, more concerned with his own image. Which is pretty much what the left have been doing en masse with the white working classes for years. Just 'cos these peoples fears about immigration aren't right, shouting 'we live in a multi-racial, multi-cultural society' at them without explaining why immigration can be a positive thing doesn't make them go away it just makes people feel abandoned (obviously some people can't be talked to, but you've gotta try).
No wonder lunatics like the BNP have so much support, the Tories are coming and the socialist movement in this country is fucked. Labour had it's chance and it's blown it spectacularly, and this event sums it up nicely.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plus: all the corporations I hate are well up for immigration because it keeps wages down. I'm all for immigration - but not at the whim of corporate Britain.
I'm going to make a wild guess here and suggest that not many of you work with the public? Do you really think he should "just say it to her face"? How pleased would you be if at a restaurant the waiter said "no pudding for you with those thighs eh?" but of course he will say it later behind your back. Do you really think that when people who serve you smile and wish you a nice day they always mean it?
As you are all so keen on honesty though, may I, acuse some (though not all) of you of being, if not bigotted then certainly, prejudiced because you are making assumptions based on pre-concieved ideas. Fair enough Rochdale is not New York and there are people who live there with racist views (though I might point out that this is not exclusive to Lancashire - I would suggest Bradford is not a particularly good example of racial harmony if you need an example in Yorkshire Benjamin) but this problem is national and the problem of immigration is not who is coming from where but that ordinary people are fed lies about immigration by segments of a media that they by-and-large still trust and that they are being made scared of a non-existant bogeyman.
Gordon Brown should not have called her a bigot to her face (though he was perfectly right to express his opinions of her in what he thought was private)
What he should have done though, and what he, and the party have failed to do, is to educate people about what immigration really means. That it is on-the-whole good for the economy and that it enriches our society. People are scared of what they don't understand so why has no effort been made to educate them?
I live in Rochdale, and I know Gillian Duffy, so I am not just being obtuse here. She may not be in posession of all the facts (and please don't make patronising comments about finding them out - not everyone has a university education and even most students get their 'facts' from Sky and the Metro) but she is not a bigot and calling her one will not really help anyone will it?
You don't live in Rochdale!
OK, she probably isn't a bigot.
You're right: she's misinformed about immigration, mostly because the political parties either lie about it (BNP) or fudge the issue. Gordon could have politely disagreed with her, but he's a politician and he's been trained never to tell a voter they're wrong, or to explain why.
You're right about the media too.
Well said Ben, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm glad you were braver than me in saying so. I often get frustrated by some of the comments on this blog about politics that I also see as prejudiced and based on pre-conceived ideas. Before I entered the (not always but often) cosy and safe confines of academia I used to work in the real world, local government where a major part of my job was consulting with the public and working constructively with politicians from the three main parties, despite being a staunch socialist. The naivety and unashamed bias of some of the comments made concerning political issues here can grate quite a lot, so I'm glad it's not just me that feels that way! :-)
I hate the term 'real world'. It's patronising and arrogant. What makes anyone's experiences less meaningful and authentic?
It's possible that the 'real world' could be applied to the working class experience, as that's by far the majority one. Anyone working class here? Not me.
I do so live in Rochdale! (it is my constituency anyway)
Apologies Vole for coming across as patronising and arrogant. It wasn't my intention. I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here, not helped by my clumsy use of words.
Of course 'real world' experiences apply to working class people, that was exactly my point. Most of the people that use local government services are working class e.g. the council house tenants I used to work with on a regular basis - that's why I feel maybe I am better placed to know where someone like Gillian Duffy is coming from because I used to work with a lot of people with similar views to her, from a similar background to her. I did not for a second think she or the people I worked with were bigoted, rather they were ill informed - they believed what they read in the tabloids because no-one else was trying to meaningfully engage with them on the topic, as Ben says. But then, you don't have to be working class to be ill informed do you? Just look at Cameron and his Bullingdon club mates. I am sure we are all ill informed when it comes to certain topics, but our passions get the better of us and we let our feelings be known regardless.
Of course I think everyone's experiences are meaningful and authentic, I'm a social constructionist for pete's sake, all I was trying to say was that because I had actually worked with people similar to Gillian Duffy i.e. members of the public with outspoken views perhaps I (and Ben too it seems) was better placed than the rest of you making comments to be balanced and fair towards her.
I can see I was right to be reticent about making a comment for fear of someone jumping down my throat. I'd obviously be far better off keeping my opinions to myself. At least one of you from the West Midlands has finally had the guts to make that clear to me. Finally, after giving you all the benefit of the doubt, I know where I stand. Thanks.
I really don't think there's any need to react this strongly. I certainly don't feel that disagreeing with you - and objecting to being told, not for the first time, that I don't live in the real world - is any cause to end a friendship. You don't have to keep your opinions to yourself, just be ready to accept disagreement!
When did I say I was ending a friendship? When did I say that you don't live in the real world?Since when, in all of time that you have known me, have I not been ready to accept disagreement. I'm sorry this is your interpretation of what I have said, but I guess I should stop being surprised by the behaviours and words of all of three of you at this stage.
Are you seriously surprised I have reacted so strongly? I notice you didn't react so strongly to Ben, and I notice there is no remorse or apology for calling me patronising and arrogant. Clearly you are right Aidan and I am patronising and arrogant, well done for putting me in my place, you must be very proud of yourself, Anita and Emma will be proud of you too no doubt. You know this is about far more than me being disagreed with, which is evidenced by your disproportionately strong reaction to my initial comments.
My mother cut her own throat and bled to death eighteen months ago. My father found her in a pool of her own blood, and held her in his arms, eyelids flickering, until the police and ambulance came. He, my father, had to wait outside his own house for hours stained with his wife's blood whilst the police checked it wasn't a murder and the ambulance tried to save her, but she had lost so much blood she was braindead. My mother called me a week before she killed herself, she asked me if I loved her, but I was still so upset with her throwing all of my MBA work out (work I need to help finish my PhD and apply for jobs but I don't have, thanks to my mum) that I didn't tell her I loved her I just told her she was being silly. She had told me she was going to kill herself, but she often overexaggerated so I didn't believe her. She said she was feeling like she did in 2006 and asked me for help, but she behaved so visciously and vitriolically towards me in 2006 when she was having a manic episode and I had tried to get help from medical professionals and no-one would help me that I didn't exactly feel willing to go out of my way to help her again. You try sleeping soundly in your bed at night or concentrating and producing quality PhD work with these things on your conscience, I can tell you, it isn't easy.
What makes it almost impossible is when you are having the most difficult and stressful period of your life and you ask three friends who you thought you could depend on for help, support and sensitivity for help, support and sensitivity, and every one of them prefers not to help because you are a long way away in Essex and easily and conveniently forgotten about and they are too preoccupied with their own lives to worry or care about you. On more than one occasion, in spite of being very busy, and having enough of my own problems, I have gone out of my way to help you and Emma and Anita, yet I don't experience the same favour being returned. It isn't me that has chosen not to be friends with either you, Emma, or Anita, but the three of you that have abandoned me, and have chosen to be disinterested when I have asked each of you for help and sensitivity. I wasn't planning to end any friendships as it happens, but maybe you are right, with friends like that, who needs enemies.
"I really don't think there's any need to react this strongly."
- Erm, I think that there might be... QED above.
"It's possible that the 'real world' could be applied to the working class experience, as that's by far the majority one. Anyone working class here? Not me."
- I don't think it was meant as a personal slur, but rather as a generally accepted term - "Real world solutions", etc.
Something which your original article doesn't mention is the concept of mitigating circumstances, he was under significant pressure, tired, stressed, etc. [pause for thought]...
It is quite apparent that there is no academic pedigree in giving people the benefit of the doubt (unless they are a bundling buffoon like Brown of course), must be something they teach in the 'real world'. <-- This is a personal slur.
RE ending friendships: My response would have been much more blunt & to the point! Good job you don't believe in censorship isn't it Vole!
I think it’s probably best if it’s left here as this is already too damaging for all concerned to be tolerated.
Anonymous: get lost unless you're very well informed about the individuals concerned.
Kate: let's move this offline.
Post a Comment